Pier flip

[gpaolo]

By the way, do I have to remove the previous version of the driver before installing the new one or can I just overwrite?

[Armando]

Hi gpaolo,

simply execute the exe .

CS
Armando

[Armando]

Hi gpaolo,

Yesterday night I saw in the changelog that at version 1.4.2 (more or less...) the SideOfPier was changed to be compliant with...

I just found this in the change log:
1.4.96 (2012-07-07)
Changed PierEast and PierWest.
This was necessary to be conform with ACP.
The nomenclature of ACP states:
PierWest = telescope is on the west and facing east
PierEast = telescope is on the east and facing west The ASCOM / ACP designation for the meridian side is therefore inverse to the LFEP's handbox.

I think it was changed starting from r288.

Anyway my idea now is to keep the LFEP utility unchanged and to allow the user to check a checkbox to have the opposite pier side "outside of the driver".
I already built it. If you confirm the previously attached driver (that works always in reverse mode outside of the driver) is ok, then I'll upload the just built release...

CS
Armando

[gpaolo]

...hmm... where is the new option? I cannot find it... 

[Armando]

...hmm... where is the new option? I cannot find it... 

In the attached driver the new option is missing. You'll find it in the next release; it's ready but I need a confirmation that the driver you are going to test (that works only in reverse mode) is ok...

CS
Armando

[gpaolo]

Aaaahhh!! Ok! I was going to dismount the entire PC to get that option visible, you just stopped me in time 
I finish to eat and I test it...

[Armando]

If you find the driver working you can check later also the attached one that includes the new option (next to East / West orientation checkboxes of your screenshot...). If the option (to be set only if required) is changed while LFEP is connected by ASCOM, the user has to fully disconnect the LFEP by ASCOM...

CS
Armando

[gpaolo]

So far so good... Maxim is correctly indicating pier side, movements are fine, I wait the dark to check guiding with CCDAP...

[gpaolo]

Well, I could define this night a complete failure.
As I said, now Maxim recognize correctly the pier side, BUT... that damn CCD autopilot keeps doing the same.
So there may be more things to solve. I tried to use TheSky and Poth instead of connecting directly CCDAP to the ASCOM driver, but nothing changed. I tried also to use the LX200 standard driver, but it didn't work either. I'm running out of ideas, I thought that the problem was coming from the pier flip but I'm not so sure anymore.
I fear I will have to find another solution instead of CCDAP to solve the problem of focusing between each image (because everything comes from this: with the new telescope, I need to refocus about every 30 minutes for the first hours and I need to do it automatically...).

Anyway, I noticed a strange thing: why with the telescope well beyond the meridian, almost touching the column, in this position:



I wasn't allowed to flip the mount?

[Armando]

Hi gpaolo,

As I said, now Maxim recognize correctly the pier side, BUT... that damn CCD autopilot keeps doing the same.
So there may be more things to solve. I tried to use TheSky and Poth instead of connecting directly CCDAP to the ASCOM driver, but nothing changed. I tried also to use the LX200 standard driver, but it didn't work either. I'm running out of ideas, I thought that the problem was coming from the pier flip but I'm not so sure anymore.

Maybe it's simply a CCDAP bug/wrong configuration.

Anyway, I noticed a strange thing: why with the telescope well beyond the meridian, almost touching the column, in this position:



I wasn't allowed to flip the mount?

There is a flip delay value but I think it's not the cause of the issue, right?
So, could you check "Enable automatic flip" and tell me if it works? You can check also the confirm checkbox...
Please let me know.

CS
Armando

[Armando]

While evaluating the cause of the flip button being disabled I found that DestinationSideOfPier method is involved in the flip button status.
And it could be also related to the CCDAP issue.
So let me know if enabling auto flip solves one of the issues or both of them (or nothing  ).

CS
Armando

[gpaolo]

Uff, I'm a bit discouraged, especially because these tests have to be done during the night, I've lost already one week, a lot of sleep, and now bad weather is coming and I don't know anymore what to try...
After taking that picture, I notice that autoflip was disabled, probably due to the driver update. Enabling it didn't activate the button (if I'm right, the autoflip acts only when a goto is issued).
After that, I tried to move to a close star, with autoflip enabled, and I got no request to flip (and button remained inactive too).
After that, I closed and opened again the driver, button became active, but when I issued the flip the telescope moved on the wrong side (that already happened once when I was trying during the day), crashed against the pier and made me lost a few years of life before I was able to stop it.
So I moved manually the telescope, synchronized with another star, then tried again and it was working (the flip button). There is definitively something that I'm missing in this behavior.

I've been installing the trial version of CCDAP 5 on another PC and I don't see any change in the configuration for the guide, so I suppose that it will behave in the same way. As soon as I have another clear night (may be saturday, may be next week...) I will try it. I've spent a lot of time searching on internet for other people who had similar problem but I found nothing. What I saw clearly yesterday night is that:
- during CCDAP initialization Maxim calibrates correctly
- if I try to guide after CCDAP initialization manually with Maxim, guide works fine
- when I start the automated procedure, guide ceases to work
- after that, to be able to guide again in maxim I have to recalibrate

So, since CCDAP is capable to change the guide directions in Maxim according to the orientation of the telescope, I understand that, for some reason, CCDAP thinks to be in a condition where the guide vector for DEC is reversed with respect to the calibration, and changes the Maxim configuration accordingly.
I tried also CCDSoft to check if it was a Maxim problem, but it does not support my AO, so it didn't even start.

It would be necessary to know what parameters CCDAP requires from ASCOM to do the calculations and then it would be a lot easier to check what it is happening... I'm beginning to think to make a switch to invert the connection of DEC in ST4 cable... 

[gpaolo]

While evaluating the cause of the flip button being disabled I found that DestinationSideOfPier method is involved in the flip button status.
And it could be also related to the CCDAP issue.
So let me know if enabling auto flip solves one of the issues or both of them (or nothing  ).

I was thinking... I did a lot of test during the day with the previous driver and the autoflip and it worked fine (not the final position, as I showed a few posts ago, but the request to flip was fine). If I decided not to flip, after the slew the flip button became active as expected.
What I didn't tried was to leave the telescope tracking until it reached the meridian and see if the button became active. If this afternoon is not raining, I can try it...

[Armando]

Hi gpaolo,

I think 4 issues are involved:
1. reverse mode (reverse flip indicator in MaxIm); I think it's solved.
2. flip button not enabled during tracking; I hope the attached driver solves also this issue (with autoflip disabled too).
3. wrong flip direction or movement amount;
4. CCDAP guiding issues.

I think for the 4th issue you need to calibrate pointing on a star on the opposite side. I found something online related to this issue.
I need some time to figure out what is wrong by checking only the driver code (I'm not able to check by my mount).
If you can please let me know if the 2nd issue is solved.

CS
Armando

[gpaolo]

Sure, I will try at the first chance, I hope this afternoon/tonight.
Could you please tell me where did you find reference to the position of the star used to calibrate CCDAP? Or at list how did you find it... I missed that information.

[Armando]

Hi gpaolo,

Could you please tell me where did you find reference to the position of the star used to calibrate CCDAP? Or at list how did you find it... I missed that information.

http://www.ccdware.com/support/faq.cfm#10 - related t o CCCDAutoPilot 2

You can see similar issues in the following thread: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5681439/Main/4995045
A confirmation about (frequent and deeply discussed on CCDAP support forum) issues caused by CCDAP itself: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5498645/Main/5497888
Someone suggests also to keep MaxIm not connected to the telescope while using CCDAP. 
You could directly ask ccdware for support.

CS
Armando

[gpaolo]

Hi Armando,

bad weather yesterday, clouds and rain, so I cannot test the new driver. Today it should be better, I hope to try it this afternoon.
About your suggestions:

http://www.ccdware.com/support/faq.cfm#10 - related t o CCCDAutoPilot 2

I already use a star on the east... In fact, I'm always starting on east side. I'm wondering what would happen if I start on west side, if CCDAP thinks to be on the wrong side during calibration instead of during guide, it could work...

You can see similar issues in the following thread: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5681439/Main/4995045

Yes, I saw this thread. I'm using camera relays too because the Lodestar ST4 cable is not compatible with the ST4 port on the LFEP.
In fact, yesterday I cut the cable and installed a new connector with the correct connections and this afternoon I plat to build a box with two switches to revers "in hardware" RA and DEC guide direction... I have the habit from work to solve the issue of software guys with hardware 
Testing autoguider relays instead of camera relays is on my to-do list...

A confirmation about (frequent and deeply discussed on CCDAP support forum) issues caused by CCDAP itself: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5498645/Main/5497888
Someone suggests also to keep MaxIm not connected to the telescope while using CCDAP. 

I had already tried all that. I also tried to force the pier flip in Maxim, connect it, disconnect it, everything. That's what I mean when I say that I'm out of ideas...

You could directly ask ccdware for support.

I tried, but... I'm using CCDAP4 from a friend of the association here in my city, but on the forum they told me that I'm evidently using a pirate version because CCDAP4 is no more available for testing and they didn't want to answer... so... no help from this side.


Anyway, I was thinking...
In the driver there is a Log window. Do you think it would be complicate to print in that windows what kind of informations the client applications are requesting? For example, something like "client name, method name, value"? In this way, we could know what parameters is requesting CCDAP during calibration and guide and we could directly check if the value returned is what is expected.

[the_lizardking]

Sorry guys we have so bad weather here I could not do anything here,... hope I can support next week.

[Armando]

Hi gpaolo,

Yes, I saw this thread. I'm using camera relays too because the Lodestar ST4 cable is not compatible with the ST4 port on the LFEP.
In fact, yesterday I cut the cable and installed a new connector with the correct connections and this afternoon I plat to build a box with two switches to revers "in hardware" RA and DEC guide direction... I have the habit from work to solve the issue of software guys with hardware 
Testing autoguider relays instead of camera relays is on my to-do list...

if you want to find a remedy to the issue (instead of solving its root cause) and CCDAP allows executing scripts, I would suggest to make a vbs or js script to command the invert dec soon after the calibration... 
Anyway I think software of this kind are meant to simplify the life and the use of the equipment, not to introduce new and unexpected annoyances... 

CS
Armando

[Armando]

I can confirm the wrong status of the flip button was solved by my previously built and uploaded driver (LFEP I).
Anyway I think it should not take care also of the delay value used by the autoflip function.
So the attached driver definitely solves also this small bug: now, as soon as a flip is opportune, the flip button is enabled.

If you think reverse mode can be useful (it should replace pier side in reverse mode in MaxIm) I can update the driver on sourceforge.

I think incomplete flip should be examined. I'll gladly appreciate some reports about this issue: my mount is too slow (40x GoTo speed), I won't test any function related to flip for obvious reasons...

CS
Armando