Author Topic: Autoguider Probleme  (Read 48136 times)

Offline Isi

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Autoguider Probleme
« on: Sunday, 04.05.14 - 22:58:00 - CEST »
Hallo im Forum,

ich hatte Probleme mit meinem MGEN Autoguider, die Steuersignale wurden blockiert. Wenn man nun die Handbox nimmt und die RA

Richtung umkehrt werden die Steuersignale wieder empfangen.

LFEP V 6.20

Ascom 1.5.3 Beta 6

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Jörg Isensee

Offline Armando

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #1 on: Monday, 05.05.14 - 00:05:03 - CEST »
Hi Jörg,

do you mean that you found ST-4 guiding commands ignored and that pressing RA+ and RA- on the HW handpad contemporaneously solved the issue?

CS
Armando

Offline the_lizardking

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #2 on: Monday, 05.05.14 - 17:16:53 - CEST »
Since I switched to the lodestar Autoguider I have the same problem,... thanks for the hint with changing the buttons in RA. I thought my ST4 is defect,...

It looks that a different pinning of the lodestar and the ALCCD5 from Mgen is the reason. Normaly it should not make a difference but it looks like this. In my combination a TDM is between Lodestar and LFEP, the TDM has same pinning like LFEP but lodestar is now different and it could be in my case that TDM is starting to do crazy things (shortly overlapped or too fast direction change),... same could be for Mgen when it figures out during calibration that directions are different,... maybe it also does smth crazy that LFEP does not want,...

The pins are in oposite for both guiding cams, which means:

LFEP:
not used
GND
R
U
D
L

Lodestar/Alccd5:
not used
GND
L
D
U
R

I think this could be the reason for the problems we both have,... I could not test it so far so its just a hint.
The reason why I think this is the root of the problem is that I had a ALCCD5T before. The ALCCD5T is a special case, this cam was not developed by QHYCCD direct, it was a German built and has the same pinning for ST4 output like LFEP and TDM. As long as I was using the ALCC5T I never had problems with the guide port and everything worked fine.

CS

PS Hoffe das passt auch in Englisch,... :)

Offline Armando

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #3 on: Monday, 05.05.14 - 19:18:40 - CEST »
Hi the_lizardking,

according to me left, right, up and down mean NOTHING.
Probably some developers prefer to use this kind of notation simply to hide some firmware bugs or to simplify the development of the firmware (so that the user has to figure out the appropriate pinout of the guiding cable).

Anyway typically, except for guiding issues after a flip or for a pointing refinement by ST-4 based upon plate solving, the guider calibration is the only step required to be able to guide still with a wrong cable (I'm obviously assuming ground pins are properly connected).
But if both TDM ST-4 input and output sockets are in use then there is the need to make the right connections both on RA and Dec to avoid a "fight" between the TDM unit and the guiding camera. But Jörg didn't mention TDM; so I don't think the issue is related to the cable.  ::)

Another cause of possible issues on ST-4 is related to the use of ST-4 to change the side of pier. If you send contemporaneously RA+ and RA- (or Dec+ and Dec-) guiding pulses you can change the side of pier. I suggested this solution to Rajiva for the old EQ6 MCU update kit since there were no free inputs available to control the side of pier by a switch. I think he implemented this feature also for LFEP. But if only one device sends guiding commands to LFEP by ST-4 (i.e. no TDM is in use), since calibration sends RA+, RA-, Dec+ and Dec - commands one at a time, I see no issues can occur. After calibration the guiding software will never send RA+ and RA- (or Dec+ and Dec-) commands contemporaneously. With a wrong cable the software could mix up RA and Dec (so that if you set the guiding software to make use of dithering only on RA you'll find dithering only on Dec...). But the issue we're speaking about is that LFEP doesn't guide at all...
Maybe the cause is the debouncing management on ST-4 or too short pulse guide durations: maybe LFEP locks and Jörg found a simple procedure to unlock it...

CS
Armando

Offline Isi

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #4 on: Monday, 05.05.14 - 20:48:29 - CEST »
Hallo

@Armando, ich meine das ich die Richtung der RA ändere. Im Guider einen Stern einstellen, Guider auf Start aber es passiert nichts. Dann ganz kurz RA minus gedrückt halten und kurz RA plus kurz drücken, dann beide loslassen. Gestern hatte ich nach dem ersten GOTO keine Probleme, aber nach dem zweiten GOTO funktionierte es wieder nicht. Dann Tastenkombination gedrückt und alles lief wieder einwandfrei. TDM habe ich nicht. Ich hatte den MGEN auch schon zum überprüfen eingeschickt, natürlich war alles in Ordnung bei der Überprüfung, vorsichthalber hatte ich mir ein neues ST4 Kabel mitschicken lassen.

@the_ lizardking, ich teste das Ganze heute nochmal. Ich glaube aber das es an dem Ascom Driver liegt da ich bei der früheren Version keine Probleme hatte.

Gruß und cs

Jörg


Offline the_lizardking

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #5 on: Monday, 05.05.14 - 21:09:50 - CEST »
Mmm this could also be, we discussed about the ASCOM driver and its possible cause for this error,... for me this was strange I changed to lodestar and we updated the driver,... but after thinking about it we could not see a relation between the driver and the ST4 port,...

Important is that pushing the buttons at the same time unlocks the ST4 again,... I was messuring and so on and did not find any issue,... I was confused.

However did you try to step back to the 1.5.2 driver to test it? It is maybe easier than working on the cables....
Here is the link:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/lfepascom/files/LFEP%20ASCOM%20Driver%20%281.5.2%29.exe/download

If the driver cause this it can only be the traffic we produce meanwhile was the conclusion but Armando tested a lot on this and could not find anything. Normaly ST4 and the driver are not interacting with each other so it is confusing,...

@Armando this is what I wanted to say, I think it could be something TDM or Mgen is producing however,... Isi also feels the problem since he did the update,... I am not sure anymore if it is at the end related to the driver somehow,... the interesting thing is that Isi sees a relation with GoTo commands,... I cannot do GoTo commands with CDC so I am not sure if this has an relevance in this case,... I still get errors on CDC when I do GoTo,...

@Isi do you do the GoTos by handpad??

When we where testing the ST4 issue we made it happen once that ST4 worked after downgrade to 1.5.2 but only short,... then the same error again but we didnt do a GoTo we simply upgraded to the new driver and had TDM running...

cs

Offline Armando

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #6 on: Monday, 05.05.14 - 22:15:23 - CEST »
Hi the_lizardking,

a single GoTo causes one or more slewings since the driver has to manage the pillar and/or the automated flip.
But nothing else occurs. The only thing that could interfere with guiding is the step required to cross the Pole (during a flip). Crossing the Pole is executed at 16x and so the guiding speed is temporarily altered. After slewing has been completed or aborted (and the Pole crossed/not crossed) the driver has to restore the guiding speed.
So nothing special occurs...

I'm tempted to think that serial traffic can occasionally lock the LFEP. And there is no way to detect an ST-4 command by ASCOM.
So I would suggest to enable the silent option (next to S button) to reduce traffic. If it helps to solve the issue I'll modify the silent mode to have no traffic at all: the user will be obliged to enable the option before going to guide by ST-4...

Hi Jörg,

did you find that this issue is reproducible?
You find a new release at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/lfepascom/files/LFEP%20ASCOM%20Driver%20%281.5.3%2005-05-2014%29.exe/download
Could you update the driver?
I found that If you guide by the ST-4 interface then LFEP guides only at pad guide speed.
So if you use ST-4 to guide probably you've to check the option "Use Pad guide speed". Please refer to the attached screenshot...

Maybe enabling ASCOM Pulse Guiding speeds different from hand pad guiding speeds causes the issue if LFEP receives ST-4 commands.

CS
Armando
« Last Edit: Friday, 30.05.14 - 16:49:18 - CEST by Armando »

Offline Isi

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #7 on: Sunday, 11.05.14 - 13:33:40 - CEST »
Hallo,
Quote
ich meine das ich die Richtung der RA ändere. Im Guider einen Stern einstellen, Guider auf Start aber es passiert nichts. Dann ganz kurz RA minus gedrückt halten und kurz RA plus kurz drücken, dann beide loslassen
die Tastenkombination RA+ zuerst funktioniert auch. Da ich hiermit gut klarkomme werde ich auch nicht eine andere Version aufspielen.
Was mir noch aufgefallen ist folgendes :

Offline the_lizardking

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #8 on: Monday, 12.05.14 - 23:45:56 - CEST »
hi isi,

zou dont need to use it all time onlz for test it would be nice to use the other drivers,.... zour settings wont get lost or anzthing.



cs

Offline Isi

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday, 13.05.14 - 23:09:39 - CEST »
Hallo the_lizardking,

ich habe mal den Driver 1.5.2 aufgespielt. Nun läuft alles bestens. Die Guidersingnale kommen normal an und ich brauche auch die Tastenfunktion ( wie oben beschrieben ) nicht. Danke für den Tipp.

Gruß und cs

Isi

Offline Armando

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday, 14.05.14 - 10:22:10 - CEST »
Can you tell me how to reproduce the ST-4 issue?

CS
Armando

Offline Isi

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday, 14.05.14 - 17:04:13 - CEST »
Hallo Armando, kannst Du bitte Deine Frage noch einmal anders formulieren.
Gruß Isi


Offline Armando

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday, 14.05.14 - 17:42:37 - CEST »
Hi lsi,

I want to solve the ST-4 issue (if possible).
What steps are required to "lock" the ST-4?

CS
Armando

Offline Isi

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday, 14.05.14 - 22:43:53 - CEST »
Hallo Armando,
da kann ich Dir leider noch nicht weiterhelfen. Ich habe eben gerade noch einmal den Driver (1.5.2 )getestet, gestern lief das Ganze Problemlos und heute musste ich wieder die Tastenkombination eingeben da die Guiderimpulse wieder nicht ankamen. Nach Eingabe der Tastenkombination kamen die Guiderimpulse wieder an. Da habe ich mich gestern leider zu früh gefreut. Cs Jörg

Offline Isi

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #14 on: Thursday, 15.05.14 - 23:16:33 - CEST »
Hallo Arrmando, mein Problem ist immer noch das Gleiche. Die Tastenkombination kann auch mit Dec. erfolgen, aber nur wie oben beschrieben mit der Handbox, also nicht am Computer mit der virtuellen Handbox . Cs Isi

Offline Armando

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #15 on: Thursday, 15.05.14 - 23:49:39 - CEST »
Hi lsi,

does the issue occur also without an ASCOM connection?

CS
Armando

Offline Isi

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #16 on: Friday, 16.05.14 - 14:08:21 - CEST »
Hallo Arrmando, das werde ich mal als nächstes testen. Cs Isi

Offline Isi

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #17 on: Saturday, 17.05.14 - 09:59:21 - CEST »
Hallo Armando, gestern beim Testen, ohne Ascom hat der Guider ohne Probleme funktioniert. Neustart mit Ascom und es funktionierte wieder nicht.Cs Isi

Offline Armando

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #18 on: Friday, 23.05.14 - 13:34:48 - CEST »
Hi Isi,

I thought that the commands used to set/change the moving speed can cause the issue if they are sent during an ST-4 pulse...
So I sent single long ST-4 pulses or a lot of short ST-4 pulses  while connecting by ASCOM but the issue didn't occur on my LFEP. I also tried pad/not_pad guide speeds.

Maybe the issue is related to the LFEP firmware.  ::)

Since the issue occurs also with the old 1.5.2 release please update the driver.
The latest version is available at the following address:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/lfepascom/files/LFEP%20ASCOM%20Driver%20%281.5.3%2005-05-2014%29.exe/download

Please give me some hints to reproduce the issue, if available...

Do you ALWAYS have no ST-4 response AS SOON AS you start the ASCOM connection and the ASCOM handbox is displayed? Does the issue occur without interacting with the ASCOM GUI controls?
In these cases let me know if the attached driver doesn't cause the ST-4 "lock"... Keep in mind the attached driver is just meant to figure out if the issue
is caused by the command required to set the guiding speed (I commented it so that no guiding speed settings occur when you connect by ASCOM).

CS
Armando
« Last Edit: Friday, 30.05.14 - 16:50:03 - CEST by Armando »

Offline Isi

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Re: Autoguider Probleme
« Reply #19 on: Friday, 23.05.14 - 21:28:17 - CEST »
Hallo Armando,
ich bin gerade am testen aber ich komme mit dem neuen Driver nicht zurecht. Wo finde ich eine Gebrauchsanweisung ? Unter Help ist nichts zu finden. Bei mir laufen nun die RA u. DEC nacheinander. Das GOTO stimmt. Bei mir müssen beide Achsen gleichzeitig anlaufen da sonst die Montierung gegen die Säule fahren kann. Was muß ich da einstellen. Und was bedeutet

Alt.Park
Fan off / on

cs

Isi